Ignition timing

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paddymarsh
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Ignition timing

Postby paddymarsh » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:00 pm

Hi guys, very n00b question sorry but have searched hard and wide and had no luck.

This is for a T2.

What mark am i lining my pulley up to when doing my timing?? There is a line on the grey cover beside the pulley but it doesn't really look like it should be where i am lining up to. I have the TDC mark on the pulley but no 20 degree mark, but i can figure that out easy enough. I just need to know what i am lining the 20deg up to??

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

KingCity
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby KingCity » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:29 pm

There shouldn't be any markings for timing on the cambelt end, there are some markings for the water pump/alternator belt as a guide for tension. If you are using a basic timing light (no dial) with the engine running at idle you will be going for the 20 degree mark but ideally you should use a timing light with a degree dial which you can then easily adjust to get the TDC mark which is the most important but there is still a way to do it with just a basic timing light.

To do this you need to first remove the black rubber plug that sits at the gearbox end of the block behind the right side of the radiator, it may not be there as they tend to go missing but it is likely to be covered in a oily greasy mess due to the rocker cover seal leaking most likely, once that has been removed you will see the flywheel which has the TDC & 20 degree BTDC markings (28 degree for T1 engine).

Now start & run engine until it has warmed up, this is not important or needed but can allow the engine to run better for when you remove the Vacuum Advance hose. Now remove the vacuum advance hose from the dizzy, this should be labelled number 2, it is the one on the end or closest to the battery (the other hose should be number 5) now block it of with your finger or something like a nail or screw that is big enough to go tight enough in the end to bring the revs down otherwise if you don't block it off it will rev up high & or idle hunt which is annoying, also make sure not to try putting something too small in there as it might suck it in which will cause further issues.

The reason you remove the number 2 hose is to allow you to check 'Base Timing', from what i understand most EFI Honda's from the mid 80's onwards had a plug or some wires that you connect together to put the ECU into a base timing mode to allow for this but i'm not sure of the Turbo City's as i've never had an original manual to find out if there is a way to put the ecu into this mode but removing the number 2 hose has the same effect. Once you blocked that hose off the engine will idle very low & could stall so you may need to give the car some throttle to get the revs up around 750-800rpm, once you have this sorted (extra person may be needed) you can now use the timing light, make sure you clamp number 1 cylinder spark plug lead with the arrow facing the correct way & now you can check the timing, if it is out just loosen the 10mm bolt on the dizzy & move either direction, clockwise will advance & anti clockwise will retard, firing order should go 1-3-4-2 from memory if you need to check leads.

I may be able to put some photos up, i don't have a Turbo City anymore so i can't show you with a video sorry.

KingCity
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby KingCity » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:32 pm

Also i will be in Auckland on the 9th of Feb (2 Fridays away) so can catch up & help you if needed.

KingCity
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby KingCity » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:08 pm

Image

paddymarsh
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby paddymarsh » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:17 am

Very helpful thank you!!! I will give it a nudge when I get home on Monday. Seems to make sense

paddymarsh
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby paddymarsh » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:07 pm

So just be clear, when the 20deg mark id showing in that flywheel viewing window when i have my light on it then i am in the right place?
TIA

KingCity
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby KingCity » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:01 pm

As long as you are at idle & your vac advance is working right then you will be looking for the 20 degree mark unless you have removed number 2 vac hose then you will be looking for TDC which is shown as a T on the flywheel. You may want to spray some brake cleaner on the flywheel marking to remove the build up of clutch dust to make it easier to see with the timing light as the 20 degree mark can be a little difficult to see at times.

paddymarsh
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby paddymarsh » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:00 am

Ok so i got it all sorted last night. Thanks for your clear instructions, made it very easy! I lined up the TDC mark in the window with #2 vac advance hose blocked off. My question is should the TDC mark move very far once i plug #2 hose back in? It barely moved when I plugged the hose back up.

It smells a little rich and idle and even gave me a backfire when i took it for a drive yesterday. Normal or no?

KingCity
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby KingCity » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:27 pm

Yes it should move to the 20 degree mark however the Vacuum advance diaphragm may have split which is common with these as they are old plus running higher boost levels also shortens their life. You should be able to tell if it is leaking by squeezing the number 2 hose tight enough to block the vacuum & then by releasing it quickly you should either hear sucking noises through the diaphragm & or revs will rise meaning that it is sucking air past the diaphragm, you may need to do it a few times to hear any difference but as soon as you squeeze that number 2 hose tight it should drop the engine revs if it has split so you should notice the difference easily if any.

As for the richness there should be a little black rubber bung on top of the thing that is known as the 'Black Box' in the City community which is the big black box on the fire wall with all those vacuum hoses going into it (above master cylinder) If you remove the little bung & use a small flat head screwdriver which you may have to wiggle around a bit to get the screwdriver to slot into the top of the screw this will adjust your idle mixture, from memory there are 12 clicks of adjustment, i find if you turn it anti-clockwise all the way back till it stops then turn it clockwise about 4 clicks normally gets them running fairly smooth & not to rich smelling, sometimes if they are turned to far clockwise the engine will sound like it is missing or backfiring at idle & usually smell quite richer however that is as long as everything else is working fine.

One other thing to look for is a split in the rocker cover breather hose, this is the long one that is on the cam belt end of the engine & goes to the lower throttle body plate (not the small one that goes to the air filter box), they will usually go hard & will always split when running high boost levels, this split can cause the engine to idle high & can make the engine revs fluctuate which is known as 'Idle Hunting'.

paddymarsh
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Ignition timing

Postby paddymarsh » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:53 pm

Ok so my revs drop big time when i squeeze hose 2# so i will need to hunt down a new diaphragm by the sounds of it. And I will get my idle mixture sorted too. Thanks so much for your help!

KingCity
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Re: Ignition timing

Postby KingCity » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:12 pm

Ok yeah it sounds like it may have a split in it, the engine will drop revs by around 200-300rpm when the diaphragm is good & working as it should when blocking off that hose as it stops the advanced timing which helps it idle so if it is a huge drop in revs then its likely to have split. I'm more than happy to have a quick look at it next Friday if you need me to.


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