I bought a pro T on the weekend

[schmalski]

::)well now i am one of you's!!

A 84' pro T White Blue trim, price not too sure a good deal (ave market price i figure in aussie???) but the 72 year old man wanted $1750 with RWC so i gave it, not much of a haggler, looked a good deal.

It's quicker than my 82" Mitsi hell 300 van i know that much!!

Rang up this racer place in brissy and they know the city... the guy reckons...."with the right turbo application, you can get 180 - 200kw out of those motors" farrrkkk!!! jeeppers creepers, didn't talk cost but, but no doubt serious swandoolies to do that power??  said to come down best talk in person show us what u got, and what u want, easyier ...

[N.J.]

Welcome to the club!

I checked out what an '84 City Pro T is worth at http://www.carpoint.com.au. Christ! ;D What's my pal at EFI playing at? ???

Please keep me informed!

[BOOSTBOY]

Anyone who thinks they can get 200kW out of a City engine is dreaming big time.

[schmalski]

i figure thats hell alot of power for 1.3 ltr motor??

maybe he said horse power but my brain was thinking kilowatts?

you reckon maybe 120 -  140kw is more realistic?

[BOOSTBOY]

The magical ultimate figure for a City turbo engine is about 200HP.  Even that is pushing it when you consider a) the capacity, b) bore/stroke ratio - massive piston speed at any decent RPM c) valve size / head design.

I don't think anyone here on the forums have come close to 200HP aside from Charles with the old STU88Y T2 and that didnt last long!

P.S - Hurry up and make lots of power Turbo3!  ;)

[James]

Yeah, what he said  ^^  That guy was possibly going on experiences hes had with motorbike engines or something. Or he was talking shit so you would give him money.

Any engine with this little capcity is gonna be hanging its ringpiece out to make 200kW, the Hyabusa engines do it, but they rev to about twice what the city engine does so its a bit easier for them.

The suzuki 1300 dohc engines out of the swifts and things could probably make that power, but it wouldnt be cheap.

[BOOSTBOY]

Yeah the G13B Suzuki Swift engines can make that power and more, but it all comes down to revs, something a City Turbo doesn't do too well...

[schmalski]

went out to that place where they reckon they can achieve 200kw out a city turbo.......

I said i'd spoken to a guy on the phone ( he had popped out and was not there ) So talked to a guy in the workshop about city turbo motor and asked had they done any?? "nup he said never seen one of those in here......" " there a 3 cylinder motor aren't they?.........

[schmalski]

so when i go out and look to buy a city turbo motor, for the pro T, does it mater whether it's a T2 or T1?? and when you see a motor for sale does that include turbo, electronics etc??

[James]

If you have a choice, go for a t2, bound to be slightly newer, and the engine is slightly better in most respects. Higher compression, bigger valves, bigger turbo, bigger throttle body no EGR valve and a few other things.

When you see one for sale it usually doesn't include any electronics beyond what is on the motor. all the loom that comes off the motor finsihes in handy plugs for removing the engine so you will have that. Buy none of the loom to the ECU or anything usually.

Whether it comes with a turbo or not is up to chance, depends whether its been sold seperately or not. Sometimes its easier to sell a turbo than a city turbo engine. Quite often the turbo alone will fetch what the engine without the turbo does anyway.

[doggystyle]

[quote author=BOOSTBOY link=board=GEN;num=1123472631;start=0#2 date=08/08/05 at 14:39:40]Anyone who thinks they can get 200kW out of a City engine is dreaming big time.[/quote]




......... doh!...  now i know why i was lying in bed.. ???...

..... still, i reckon i could do it and have it not go down.... whats that.. 260hp?.... not on a standard tII engine tho, have to spend some coin on it

[James]

Maybe with a steel crank, titanium rods, Hyper-Alloy Pistons. Titanium valve-springs, titanium valves. the biggest valves you can put in there and a big huffer.

[schmalski]

if parts are so much cheaper in NZ maybe i should look at just shipping one from there, through a freight forward company??

I rang customs...10% duty on the value of the motor, then 10% GST on the value of motor+duty+freight, but I Know goods leaving NZ are not subject to GST so I could subtract 12.5% (GST NZ) of what the motor cost, so some claw back......

Saw another turbo crowd this morning...
His rough estimate on the motor rebuild $3000 (more obviously for more performance) replacing the motor wouldn't more than 5-6 hours work but his concern is with the wiring, electronics, that make take longest time and cost and may be $1000 - $1500

please tell me about the wiring ??

[James]

Stripping the engine down to have it rebuilt isn't too hard and it sounds like it will save you a lot of money.

Start by draining out all of the fluids, water and oil, and iff your gonna pull the gearbox at the same time (I would recommend( then the gearbox oil too.

You just unbolt everything in sight to start with. All the covers and things. Then remove all the turbo hoses and radiator hoses. Then pull off all the vacuum hoses going to the black box thingie (affectionatly referredto as the "squid") don't worry they are pretty easy to work out again from the diagram.

Take the throttle body off and all the stuff with that. Leave it somewhere in a pile.
Unplug the two plugs connecting the injectors to the loom.
Undo the dump pipe from the turbo.
If you havn't already drain all the oil out of the engine.
Undo and remove the oil feed and return lines from the turbo.

Take all the manifolds off, you have to undo all of the 12mm nuts around them. Either you can undo the two bolts going down through the intake manifold that join it to te exhaust one, or you can leave those in and take both manifolds off in one go, beware, its heavy.

Or, if you find the manifold bolts to hard to get at, and you are gonna take the head off anyway, you can take the head of complete with the manifolds. Just unplug all the wires going to the dizzy and to the cam angle sensor.

If you took the manifolds off seperately, whip the rocker cover off and undo the head-studs and take the head off, you have to slide the cambelt off aswell, so take the cover for that off aswell.

Now, if you are pulling the gearbox and engine together, which I highly reccomend, you are pretty much ready to lift it out.
Undo the clutch cable, and undo the two main plugs going to the bit of wiring harness on the block.

Chuck the front of the car up on axle stands and take off the wheels, then you have to undo the bolt holding the strut in and pull it out of the top. You should be able to get enough movement out of the hub to pull the cv joint out of the gearbox now. Watch you dont pull the shaft out of the boot tho, the joints will need a gentle pry with a big screwdriver or prybar to pop out..

If you didnt have enough leverage to pull the shafts out then you have to undo the swaybar and leading arm.


Once you have the shafts out of the gearbox,  get under the car and undo the gearshift linkage, you have to knock out a spring pin which can be a real cow, once its undone the rods should just dangle under the car.

Undo the engine mounts one on the back, bottom, and passenger side.

Check if anything is still connected before you pull it out and mind you dont hit the brake lines with the gearbox.

Man this turned out wayyy bigger than I thought, people should add what i've forgotten then we could infobase this.

[James]

Oh yeah, once you have the engine and gearbox out, undo the bolts connecting the two and seperate them.

Then strip all the loom off the engine block, there is not too much just the main one clawing around the front of the engine from the gearbox side.

Remove the alternator, remove the waterpump pipe, you'll need a new o-ring for this.

Thats about all I can think of at the moment, its been a while since I did it.

Its a good idea to label all the lines you pull of things just to make it easier to put back together.

PS. I forgot to explain the disconnecting of the starter motor power and the solenoid line, but thats pretty easy, just stick a lable on them and undo.