My dyno run

[Silver2]

Put the city on the dyno today. At standard boost it made 87.3hp at wheels, on 20psi it made 112.4hp. Had AFR done too and it is running rich so should be able to squeeze somemore out of it. Will post to graphs shortly.

[turbo11]

Hey Silver2 thats pretty good power for a little car. What sort of mods do you have. I have just started doing a Haltech F9A install on my T2 also getting rid of the standard interheater and going front mount. Will take a few more weeks as ill be away for a most of that will post some dyno figs with after market ecu on board.

[James]

farout a haltech? going high tech on the wee beast.


Silver2 i was pretty close with my estimate at the wheels

160 @ engine, around 115-125 ATW

Youd prolly get a bit more power if you leaned it out too.

[turbo11]

Yeah pretty farout but when you come across a F9A for only $300 hmmm its not a hard to work out its going to be better. Im lucky i can install and tune myself as when i was working on Mazda's we did plenty of these ecu's.
Hey Bigelboe just looking when the ecu hits boost cut its only fuel it cuts i hope??

[James]

yeah as far as I know it just stops firing the injectors.

You gonna batch fire or sequentially inject?

You can keep the standard manifold and batch fire all 5 injectors, I have heard of someone over here that did that with success.

Sorting out when to inject the CVCC one could be intresting. If you are running high boost and running like 12.5:1 mixtures you could just take the cvcc tube off the main plenum, it would work fine with that mixture.

[jay]

hay thats very good for a 1.2 turbo i only put out 100 hp mind you i had no cooler and i was on 14 psi. wat RPM did they take it to?

[Silver2]

They took it to 6000rpm but the peak hit at 4569rpm.

[turbo11]

Bigelboe im going to sequentially fire the injectors but with the CVCC i will let the factory ecu do that . I dont think by pulling the injector plugs from the ecu should stop the ecu from working still with the other sensors still conected. I hope the ecu wont pick up that it has no injectors conected and go stupid. I might be wrong but i hope not.

[Hyperblade]

Nice results Silver2. Hows it like getting the power to the ground?

[James]

I was thinking about that the other day, I am pretty sure the ECU doesn't detect whether there are injectors detected, I think I have removed singles ones while running.

Anyway even if it does its a pretty simple fix to substitue some resistors in there.

I personally think you should bin the factory ECU and work out a better way to do the CVCC injector, either using the haltech to program it or whatever. Its not as crucial as the other mixtures, it just has to be rich enough to easily light but not so rich as to not light so thats a pretty wide window of mixtures, like 10-11:1to like 13-14:1.

What would be interesting would be getting an oscilloscope on the injectors and comparing the duty cycle of the main injectors with the CVCC one, if they are the same then would be easy just to hook 2 injectors up to one output.

[turbo11]

Only reason for keeping the factory ecu is so i can remove the haltech and make the can run again in mins. Getting a defect for ecu is not a good thing here. Do we know when the CVCC injector actually fires?? the only reason i want to keep the factory ecu to control this if it fires at a dif time. If not ill give the ecu the arse.

[Silver2]

Right getting back to the orginal topic. Puts it to the ground quite well very little wheel spin, but I do have 15's with 185's so that helps. In the wet it is a write off, wheel spin in 1st 2nd and 3rd.
The guys at the dyno couldn't get over how fast the turbo spooled up. What is the factory turbo on a T2 Vg2 or 4 and what is a good upgrade to crack to 200hp mark. There is lot of turbo cars in NZ so there are plenty of second hand factory turbos around, but what would suit.

[Hyperblade]

Right getting back to the orginal topic. Puts it to the ground quite well very little wheel spin, but I do have 15's with 185's so that helps. In the wet it is a write off, wheel spin in 1st 2nd and 3rd.
The guys at the dyno couldn't get over how fast the turbo spooled up. What is the factory turbo on a T2 Vg2 or 4 and what is a good upgrade to crack to 200hp mark. There is lot of turbo cars in NZ so there are plenty of second hand factory turbos around, but what would suit.

I was trying to steer the thread back on topic, guys if you want to contiune your discussion please take it to another thread.

All turbos in the Wet are a write off, just nuts, T1's are even worse just thing 10 less hp, 155/60/12's. Very dangerous wee things!

Pretty sure it is a Vg2, at least i seem to remember seeing it on the turbo.

[James]

Yeah sorry about the hijacking. Must be bad if Hyper busts out his moderating voice

I think a smaller one of the T25 series is a good bet silver2. One of the ones off a c18det possibly, they have very small exhaust scrolls so should spool pretty well. I am looking at getting one off a rover tomcat turbo, they make around 200hp from factory so hopefully it might be a good size.

I was looking at a turbo calculator online the other day and fed in all the information for the city engine and it told me that we have to run approximately 24psi of boost with a reasonably efficient setup to get 200hp, but that was making peak power at 5500rpm, need a lot more boost to make 200hp at 4500rpm, its probably mainly your turbine housing keeping that peak pwoer down, and after that it will be the throttle body, and then probably after that it will be the valves.

To get high efficiency you probably want a better flowing throttle body and intake plenum, and a tubular exhaust manifold. With some p&p work and maybe a higher lift cam. A cam with a bit more duration would shift the powerband higher and probably make it easier to bust the big 2ohoh.

The more you do to make the engine run more efficiently the less boost you will have to run to get the power you want and the more reliably it will run, and the more likely you will be able to retain factory rods and pistons.

For instance, if you installed a bigger turbo (T25) on a steam pipe manifold, with a civic Si or simlar ~60mm throttle body on a nice intake manifold with a bit gruntier cam you may well be able to get 200hp with 20psi and have your rods and pistons under no more stress than they are currently.

This is that calculator http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/

[James]

Hey silver2, been thinking a bit more about your quest. What exactly was the mixtures you got when you dynoed it?

Im thinking that it may be worthwhile to invest in an aftermarket ECU.

The only city turbo I have read about that has made 200hp was angus buttons car, I just found rough specs on it.

Motor just rebuilt
Arias forged pistons
Balanced and blueprinted internals
Light flywheel and Exeddy clutch
Front mount I/C
Garret water cooled T2 turbo
2.5 inch exhaust from turbo
Blitz dual SBC (low boost or high boost option)
turbo timer
Oil cooler
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
Total seal gapless compression rings
Reco head with all new factory valve stem seals and cvcc valve rebuild
Mild cam
Jacobs Boost master boost retard module
Jacob CDi ignition and transformer coil
Cold air intake with bonnet vent feed
HPC coated silver I/C pipes
Drag way 6" 13 wheels with 215 rubber
Custom Paint
Custom Interior
Odyssey racing battery (boot mounted)
VL turbo fuel pump
Racing wheel
Stereo
Gear knob
Pedals
Dark tint

And this has a little more info

Email me off line as Angus' city is very hot ~200hp, 26psi boost, front mount, forged pistons, tints, interior, stereo, koni suspension, aftermarket ignition, boost master ignition retard, ARP bolts and studs, fat little wheels, bonnet vents etc, odyssey light weight battery, gapless rings, big exhaust, basically nothing is left standard.

and this is about using lude injectors, the 190cc he talks about is standard T2

about 190cc/min. I have used prelude injectors with a flow rate of around 240cc/min. With a fresh O2 sensor the ECU could handle it once warm BUT that was for a car running 26psi and it ran rich at about 10:1 with those injectors at full boost and revs. Don't upgrade the stockers until you start running lean. Low down what will suffer as that is when the ECU reverts to fuel maps not closed loop. Long spool up lower power than could be acheived with less boost and less fuel. A lot of tuners build in extra fuel to give a safety margin at maximum boost.

So he made 200hp running at 10:1, lean that out to like 13:1 and it probably could have made another 30-40

This is another guy who got his dynoed with standard injectors

m just wonderin if any1 has had their car dynoed, and the power rating at the wheels if uve had it done.

my t2 is pumping 100bhp at the wheels at 14psi
with
big front mount
intercooler piping 2 inch
straight through 2.5 inch
gfb blow off
gfb boost control
hd clutch
rebuilt gear box
highflowed turbo at 14psi

another quote from charles, pretty much outlining what I have said already, he recons 200HP with 20psi...

100hp at the wheels is bloody good!

My best
105kw@ the wheels (140hp)
36 degree day, 98% humidity (Typical Cairns summer day)

Same mods as above but 26psi boost, Garret T2 turbo (original is a better turbo IMHO). Forged pistons, and a few other bits and pieces (head studs, rod bolts, minor porting, bigger injectors).

Same combo put down about 93hp at 14-15psi so it seems like your system is pretty effective. The big injectors meant 10-11:1 AFR though which is too rich for power making but safer for detonation. I reckon same combo would make same power at wheels with normal AFR 12.8:1 and only 20psi.

Increasing boost in a city will increase torque more than hp. This thing put down more torque than a new S15 turbo and similar peak hp.

Current integra type R puts down about 95kw at the wheels.

bit more

but for reference 100kw (140hp)at the wheels is usually around 147kw (200hp) at the fly (at least on the dyno I use).

Also just dug up some more info and charles said that the standard city intake manifold maybe with a bit of smoothing should handle 200HP, and that the throttle body is the main restriction, that I think you will have to replace.

Thats enough researchf or tonight.