I'm developing a performance suspension package for City's

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James
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I'm developing a performance suspension package for City's

Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:56 am

These Kits are no longer Available! Go to page 14 for new developments


It will mosy likely consist of:

Base Package:
Freshened where necessary, shortened Factory struts with heavier shock oil to increase both rebound and compression valving evenly to match the stiffer spring, but still keep the overall factory characteristics. These have the old spring cup removed and new aluminium ones fitted that are located with a circlip to facilitate height adjustments.

New springs for a firmer sportier lower ride, standard linear 65mm ID coilover springs.

Polyurethane bushings for lower control arm inner and front radius arm, swaybar mounts, rear control arms etc.

This would pretty much bring the handling in line with more modern cars, although at this stage only pretty stiff bushings can be offered which will make it a bit harsh on the street, but handle tighter.

Optional:
Roll centre adjusters for fixing the less than ideal geometry from going low. (spacers for the lower ball joint and a new tie rod end, these are a little while away)

Bigger Rear swaybar (ProT (Glen) has had an adjustable 22m rear bar designed and made, I believe he is yet to test it. This may be a little large for a street car but will probably be just the ticket for race days.)

Height adjustability (A certain amount of height adjustability is going to come standard now)

Big front brakes, rear disc setup. (Long way away, someone else is already offering better front brakes.)

Inverted struts with external reservoirs :P (Loong way away yet)

Ride height can be whatever you want, limited by your tyre/wheel clearence.

Price for the base package is a little more certain now. For 4 freshened struts, converted to height adjustability and openable, with 4 suitable springs around $800. There will be support available for these from me, like replacement seals and shock oil and things. Making them easily openable will allow you do do the height adjustability and replace seals and bearings and things with only a pair of pliers and a bit of a basic rig to squash the seal down(probably supplied). So with a supply of parts this essentially sorts you suspension for the rest of your cities life.

For the bushing kit Approximately $150 depending how many I end up doing, material supply etc. Keep in mind competing prices where just lower control arm inner bushings for front and rear would set you back about this much. I will also loan you the required tools (just need a basic press) to remove the old bushings and install the new, or do it for you if you are local.

It is still an exchange type setup. Ideally you could send me a spare set you have for me to modify, so if it has bent shafts and stuff then its not anyone elses fault. If I start accepting sets that people are replacing the modified sets with I have to start worrying about how flogged out they are a bit more, but I can probably sort it out as most parts are exchangable with standard city struts which are less likely to be flogged than T2 struts etc.

People who are keen:

Turbocab - stiffer lower struts with height adjustability and setup for using coilover springs in the rear.

Caleb - Base package?

Craybait - Base Package?

DXS - Base Package?

Hyper - Maybe bushings and rear bar?

Colza - Pretty much the works?

ProT - The Works :D
Last edited by James on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

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spike10000
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Postby spike10000 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:45 am

Sounds like a worthwhile undertaking to me. Surprised more of you guys haven't jumped in yet?

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James
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Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:27 am

The post hasn't even been up for an hour yet :lol:

Cheers for your support. Forgot to mention adjustable upper mounts for camber and castor, and adjustable lower arms for camber and castor would be optional too.

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Dxs
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Postby Dxs » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:57 am

i may be interested in the future if i ever get a t2
600 to 800 is quite cheap at a base price (well, depending on what the base setup is)

there would obviously also need to be discussion on what your exact plans are.. and input in rate theory etc..


what about bracing as well... strut and tie bar etc

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James
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Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am

Dxs wrote:i may be interested in the future if i ever get a t2
600 to 800 is quite cheap at a base price (well, depending on what the base setup is)

there would obviously also need to be discussion on what your exact plans are.. and input in rate theory etc..


what about bracing as well... strut and tie bar etc


$6-800 is quite cheap but if it was much higher I wouldn't sell any. City owners don't tend to be the most well off bunch :P

Would definately be input and testing for spring and damping rates. I plan to build a basic shock dyno so I can work out what sort of shim and spring changes I need to make to effect the necessasry changes in damping. Would start by picking some appropriate spring rates, and then can mess around with the dampers as much as we like as that bit is cheap compared to springs.

I could help with bracing too, lower brace between the control arm is probably the most important one. Would only be able to help if my City R is the same distances from suspension points in the car as T1's and T2's.

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James
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Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:59 am

I really need enough interest that I can cover the cost of a lathe (~$1200) as I really need one to shorten the shock bodies and shafts. If I get one I can also use it to make turn-buckle adjustable lower arms and things.

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classichondasrule
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suspension

Postby classichondasrule » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:15 pm

i know one of your CITY kits is on my christmas list but i bet shipping of that weight to the UK would be disgusting. but worth every penny i think i would have to have a mk2 CIV kit as well as i have been after one of those for about 8 years, awesome.

I'll be watching this post with ANTICIPATION..........

how heavy for a base package??

and how heavy for a full package??

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Re: If I developed a performance suspension package for City

Postby Hyperblade » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:02 pm

bigelboe wrote:Polyurethane bushings for lower control arm inner and front radius arm, swaybar mounts, rear control arms etc.

Optional:
Bigger Rear swaybar
Big front brakes, rear disc setup.


The bushes i would be interested in depending on price.
Sway bar a possbility.

The brakes i would be interested in, i was planning to do that after i've repainted.

I think the supension is pretty much pointless in performance terms.
It would be just to hard for the road (mine kills my back), and unless you have LSD you can't get the traction down with a stiff supension setup, and in the wet its lethal.

On the flip side it does make a huge difference to cornerering speed.

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James
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Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:32 pm

The suspension maybe pointless compared to your Mugen setup, that is essentially what I will be aiming for but a bit softer and lower.

It sounds like your setup is actually too hard for road driving. You would probably get better cornering speeds with softer damping and/or springs as you would get more compliance. Replace the lost roll resistance with a bigger rear swaybar.

I am investigating whether I could make the struts adjustable in rebound, this would be an invaluable tool for chassis tuning and would essentially turn them into Koni yellows :P

One thing that would make a huge difference is an adjustable rear swaybar. I just had a look and it would be pretty straight forward to do. Would get a lot more front grip and make it a little oversteery, a nice balance (and tunable).

So if you did get that large rear bar (say 16mm), you can keep softer main springs and dampers to keep a nice ride, and get flat cornering from the large swaybar. Its pretty much the only way to get nice ride and good handling in a FWD car.

Hyper, if you are in a position to do so would you be able to measure the wire thickness and number of active coils on your mugen springs? Probably just the front ones. Im making a little database for the suspension info on the 3 main types of citys.

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Dxs
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Postby Dxs » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:47 pm

how many people are you looking at needing roughly?

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Postby Caleb » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:02 pm

:twisted: ME ME ME, :twisted: i wants it... :twisted: must haves it :twisted:
add me to your list. & when were u hoping to have money by :?:

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Postby turbocab » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:12 pm

you know ime in mate.
as you are probly aware i am going to need a fairly stiff suspension setup to be able to run the wheel and tyre set up for my car.
i was quoted $1600 for a set of custom coilovers so ile pay half that for your little setup.
although time is of the essence! i will be jumping up and down for the first set to be sent to me,i can even send you the entire setup from the t2 i pulled to bits beforehand if you like.

hyper wrote "pointless unless you have an lsd"............. got one :wink:

also while were on the subject of suspension do you think it would be wise to weld a bar between the rear strut towers to brace them?
matt

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James
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Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:33 pm

Dxs wrote:how many people are you looking at needing roughly?


Will do some sums. EDIT: If I had 5 sets confirmed then I would probably be confident to spend all my savings on a lathe :O Will need to confirm a number of things first (availability of shock shaft seals and bearings, springs etc. If I have to buy the poly bushes from various other places they could easily blow the budget too. The 5 sets estimate would be with me charging $200 a set for my labour and consumables. Pretty fair I think considering its probably going to take me a good number of hours for each set.

Caleb wrote:ME ME ME, i wants it... must haves it
add me to your list. & when were u hoping to have money by


Sweet as 8) Too early to talk about money changing hands just yet.

Turbocab: Im sure we can sort something out for you, its actually relatively straight forward what you need to do.

Stick you wheels on with struts and no springs. Lower the car with a jack to the ride height you want, measure strut length. Stick the car on axle stands and raise the wheel until it fouls something, thats your max travel. Then we can work out your motion ratio, the ratio that describes how far the strut moves when you move the center of the tyre up or down. (will change cause you are running wild offset), and modify a suitable street spring to suit. Maybe stiffen it up a bit if you are really running out of bump travel.

Ideally we would measure your corner weight, but its probably not going to depart far from the factory T2 weights, not enough to upset a spring anyway.

Yes you should weld a bar between the towers, I would do it If I didn't still use my boot. Bracing between the rear lower control arms is probably more important tho, I may be able to sort something out for that.

OK Im drunk so I apoligise if anything doesn't make sense :D

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Postby turbocab » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:57 pm

you live in the wrong country mate,sitting directly below me as i type is a fairly large lathe (belonged to my father)only problem is the bastard has a four jaw chuck,i dont use it very often maby once a year but i still fire it up now and then and give it a little oil.

drunk as you may be that did all make sense and ime sure i can handle those measurements so go blow all your cash on a lathe(think of the home made firearms you will be able to build)(and the crack pipes for the local druggies)
just dont tell your girlfriend it cost that mutch :wink:

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James
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Postby James » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:05 pm

Just made the mistake of telling her how much it would be :P Im not sure I can actually afford one yet, might have to wait until after christmas. I *might* be able to get 1 or 2 sets done on the lathes at uni, will have to talk to the people in high places.

3-jaw chucks are easy enough to get, like $100andsomething on trademe, I am indeed in the wrong country for this project. Coincidentally my brother is now living in Sydney.

If I can find an older lathe for around 800 or so then this will become much more expediated.


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