I'm developing a performance suspension package for City's

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mikey_nz
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i want some

Postby mikey_nz » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:16 pm

id be keen as for some bro.

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James
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Postby James » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:15 am

Sweet as mikey.

I have found a source for seals, shock oil, bearings and polyurethane so far, just need to sort out springs and a few other bits and bobs.

Hopefully one of 3GCVC's mates is delivering some T1 suspension in a while so I can get the first set underway. Will do some testing re: spring and damper rates and then once that is sorted I should be able to start providing systems for others.

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James
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Postby James » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:59 pm

Should have some polyurethane suspension bushings available within the next couple of weeks, anyone keen for those seperately? Would be good to see how much difference they make.

Hyperblade
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Postby Hyperblade » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:51 pm

bigelboe wrote:Should have some polyurethane suspension bushings available within the next couple of weeks, anyone keen for those seperately? Would be good to see how much difference they make.


How many bushes? Which ones? and how much?

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Postby QikLude » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:26 pm

hell yes, i would love some "bush", im mean bushes :lol:

t1 / t2 the same?

Cheers

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James
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Postby James » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:24 pm

Ones I am currently thinking of doing:

Front:

Lower control arm inner. Radius arm forward.

Rear:

Lower Control arm inner
Lower control arm outer (2 bushings per side)

Radius rod forward.

Swaybar end links.

Strut top bushes

Engine Mounts



So pretty much all of them except the D bushes for the swaybars (which I am going to source from superpro or similar). Will have two varieties available, road and race. Race ones I can start making now if someone wants a set, road ones I am waiting to find a source of polyurethane. The race ones will be very firm, but should make the car feel pretty planted. The bushing system in the rear is quite crap from factory, there is HEAPS of friction in the lower control arm inner bushings that a polyurethane + crush tube system will almost completely remove, should make it a lot more tunable.

Price yet to be confirmed but might be around $200 for a full car set, about $500-800 cheaper than buying similar from existing sources. If someone wants a race set now I can start making it this week, they will get a discount for being a guinea pig too.

Quiklude - The bushings should be the same.

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James
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Postby James » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:47 am

Turns out its actually going to more expensive to make the Road version, and it would essentially just be a stock replacement, not really in-line with what this pacakge is about.

Sooo there will be one bushing package, firm :D Unless someone makes a particularily pleading case if they are doing a resto or something.

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Dxs
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Postby Dxs » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:57 am

is there a shore rating for the urethane (rave vs road)?

any concern that the bushings might be too stiff?
I just remember some discussion from autocrossers with other hondas, with some preferring rubber oem bushings because the thinking is that they dampen better, hence provide better handling.


how about shift linkage bushings too?
also the steering rack.. does that have a rubber bush to some kind of subframe?

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James
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Postby James » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:08 am

Shore 90A is the easiest to get, anything else is harder to source + more expensive. Apparently stock rubber bushings are often around 70-75A so 80A would probably be a slightly firmer upgrade and 90A will be more of a sporty ride.

Fitting stiffer bushings allows you to tune your suspension much easier. standard rubber bushings allow far too much suspension geometry change. If you are relying on bushings for damping then you could fit harder bushes and soften your strut damping, a much better alternative as it is much easier to tune. A lot of racers will remove the rubber bushings completely and replace them with spherical bearings. This makes the car quite noisy and rough but means you can exactly specify everything the suspension does.

Other Honda's generally use multi link rear and double a arm front which is a completely different kettle of fish to our macpherson strut front and chapman strut rear. The fact is without rigorous back to back dynamic testing you just don't know what is happening when you have something with give in all directions like a rubber bushing in your suspension. Car makers can do this testing so thats why they use them to get the behaviour they require, for us its much easier to remove their effect as much as possible and rely on the things we can change and test like spring rates, caster/camber/toe, damping and swaybars.

Shift link bushes yes I forgot those, although they are available freely as its the same as many later Hondas, I have an energy suspension kit at home that will fit my car nicely.

Steering rack has two rubber bushes to the chassis, although one of them would be OK to replace the other one is a D shape and would be a pain for me to manufacture at the current time.

Hyperblade
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Postby Hyperblade » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:47 pm

There doesn't seem to be much for the front end (top/bottom of suspension etc), which a concern as you really want to make both front and back stiff in parallel.

It feels like 3/4 of a set, i understand this is because its hard to create some of the parts, but it could have a large effect.

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James
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Postby James » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:27 pm

I thought I had covered pretty much every bushing... I didn't purposfully exclude any. If you are referring to the rubber ring that goes between the strut mount and the chassis I can make those if people want, but I assumed they would rather a camber/castor adjustable spherical bearing'd plate.

Total bushings in the car:

Front:

Radius Rod Front, 2 per side little donut things, 4 in total for front.

Lower Control arm inner, 1 per side 2 total.

Strut top ring, 1 per side 2 total.

Steering Rack Bushes, 2 different ones.

Swaybar to radius rod bushing, 1 per side 2 total.

Swaybar to chassis bushing, 1 per side 2 total.

Rear:

Radius rod forward. 1 per side, 2 total.

Radius rod rearward 1 per side, 2 total.

Lower Control arm outer, 2 per side, 4 total.

Lower control arm inner, 1 per side, 2 total.

Swaybar endlink bushings 2 mint sized ones per side, 4 total + 1 standard round bushing per side, 2 total.

Swaybar to chassis bushings, 1 per side 2 total.

Strut top bushings, 2 per side, 4 total.

Spring seats, 2 per side (different) 4 total.

Hopefully Ill be able to offer replacements for all of these, but that will have to wait till I start trying to make them.

Hyperblade
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Postby Hyperblade » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:29 pm

Sorry i obviously read your post wrong, will have a think on it over the weekend :)

What sort of time frame would we be looking at for a full set?

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James
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Postby James » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:45 pm

Image

Ill start making some this weekend and see what the expected time frame is.

Im not apprehensive about using shore 90A any more, they original rubber bushings in the City R were damn hard, probably at least 80 if not 85. Felt some 70 at the plastics place that was way too soft, this will be good. I think for the front radius rod bushings Ill beef them up a bit too to remove some flex as copying the rubber ones in urethane would almost be a stock replacement.

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James
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Postby James » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:58 am

have started by making the easiest, the rear swaybar end link bushes. Should have a set of those done today then will start on the bigger stuff.

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3GCVC
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Postby 3GCVC » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:27 am

how many of them have you got made up now?

and how do you make them the right size i would be interested to see pics of the manufacturing process.


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