new member seeking advice on GA citys & their potential

[Brad_kc]

hello

im a small car fan , & have always been a fan of Honda Citys (& EB civics)

ive just come across a very cheap 92 CE City that ill be buying this coming weekend , with a view to taking off the road in the soon future to rebuild

what are the weaknesses of this model City

what are the repower options / possibilities . are suspension or brake parts / kits available ?

im looking to make this car into a project & am seeking advice on whats praticable & do-able

i take that it has the D-13 engine , do other honda engines go into these ? the engine bay looks small on them (& honda engine info seems confusing , there seems to be loads of different "D" engines

this was an impulse buy because it was low km's & cheap , but im DEAD KEEN to turn it into a hot hatch

ive been hotting up road & dirt bikes all my life & specialise in extractor exhausts & performance mufflers , any advice that other city or honda fans could offer over this model would be greatly appreciated ~

[Dxs]

what country you in? Might make information more relevant.

I am no ga2 expert at all.. but from what i have read is that they do come with d13's. And they are quite unique compared to the other D honda engines (like d16a, d15yn etc)

There was a guy on ozhonda that put a somewhat worked d15y or z?.. sohc vtec anyway, into a ga2.. i think used the g13 box but had to mess with the bell housing.. and also had to make a mount or 2.. maybe even bashing of the firewall to fit it and use of certain intake manifolds (check ozhonda.com forums).. So basically doesnt sound like it is easy to fit a different D15 in there without custom fabrication.

but in terms of the ga2 / d13 in Australia.. it is a japanese import.. so they are rare.. and i presume parts and info will be a real bitch (much like a turbo 2 e-aa? city).. So good luck

I have seen some jap websites and videos (youtube) of ga2's.. the japs seem to keep their d13 engines and NA work them a bit. I recall somewhere that certain pistons fit.. and their were mugen mods for them..

but info is scarce and parts hard to find..


Might not be that many people on here either.. seems more the e-aa? city owners forum [on a side note i think this forum needs a bit of organisation work too]

[Brad_kc]

hello , yeah ive been google searching for the last couple of hours & i saw that D16 GA2 , seemed like a Really tight install with custom mounts & a bashed in firewall . ill be looking to do something similer

im a kiwi living in the north island , is CityTurbo.com an aussie run /moderated website ?

i came across a comment that the D15 is the same block as the D13 , but it has to have a different barrel / head . or is the D13 in the GA2 a varient all on its own ? honda engine versions are confusing as

im not so keen on vtec as all my tuning experience has been with porting & pipe work for motorcycles , & nice linear power curves are what i like & know

never had anything to do with vtec before !

this CE im buying is an auto , so gearboxes are another thing im looking for info / advice on . which are strong & which versions go with what engines ect

i forgot to mention : ive had a 1982 honda city for over a year now . just NA dog that has got a seriously stuffed carbie . its my get to work hack , & ive had a flatmate who owned a City Turbo (1) in the early 90's which was my first experience with them . we basically killed it over half a year of abuse & i never really liked it because it handeled like a bit of a dog (understeered)

honda citys are quite commen over here in NZ . normall NA versions are all over & a few Turbos get sold month by month from what i have seen . we had the first version officially imporated IIRC , but not the bulldog Turbo II . untill i saw one of these GA2 , about 10 years ago now , i was lusting after the early model Peugeot 106 (awesome tiny hatches with a 1600 in the GT model) . but these GA2 citys are quite similer & im really keen on building a hot NA project

[Dxs]

this forum was created by an aussie.. but i would dare say more kiwi's are on here.. just due to the higher prevalence of imports in NZ


i would say the d13 is more a unique item than a real member of D engine family.. but i am not someone in the know.

VTEC isnt anything to fear either.. just really 2 sets of lobes on the cam that switch depending on RPM (look it up). Basically lesser aggressive lobe for lower rpm, and more aggressive for higher rpm. So typically a vtec engine/head will flow more than a non vtec head, because they use a more aggressive lobe up high and have a higher redline.. which in turn reduces air velocity at lower rpm..


but anyway.. i like the ga2 as well, good luck with it (maybe start a worklog)

[Brad_kc]

well i brought it , a carbie automatic 92 GA2. & im convinced that i want to kit one out fully . only given it an oil & filter & transmission flush so far . its running not too foul , but doesnt really like the cold mornings & has a hideous 1600 rpm auto choke circuit . standard car carbies are disgusting devices!

btw , some of the first GA citys may have even been fitted with the E engine . with the D13 , they were carbie models to begin with from what i can tell , & they were rated at 80 Hp . when the PGM FI model was made , they were making 100 Hp - which isnt too foul for a stock NA of that era!

i may have an even better update in 2 weekends time . pics to come ~

[Dxs]

good luck brad..

maybe get some pics and start a worklog thread too

[Brad_kc]

ok im off to aucks tomorrow to get the rims i won off trademe , & ill be picking up a D16 + gearbox as well

so finally got a digital camera to get a pic of what it looks like before i fit them

first up is what ive been using to get to work for the last 2 years . just an NA city that is now being run by my brother



came across this below at turners car auctions for a grand , an 91 auto GA2 . surprised me that no one else bid seeing how cheap to run little cars have become popular over the last year .



now i always liked the EB civics , & got onto the T2 citys due to their engines were a drop-in upgrade for the EB . but i had never had anything to do with the GA2 version till buying the above . made me start looking for a proper mint version to do up & iended up getting a real score with this :



someone has already dropped in a hot cam & its got higher compresion that stock . im debating whether to do a fully hotted D13 or build up a d15 & drop it in . either way its going to get some black painted BR mags tommorrow

[James]

Good to see someone going with the GA's man. They weigh about the same as AA cities so and you have much more modern engine options so I expect nothing short of insanely fast!

[Uncle Dave]

what country you in? Might make information more relevant.

I am no ga2 expert at all.. but from what i have read is that they do come with d13's. And they are quite unique compared to the other D honda engines (like d16a, d15yn etc)

There was a guy on ozhonda that put a somewhat worked d15y or z?.. sohc vtec anyway, into a ga2.. i think used the g13 box but had to mess with the bell housing.. and also had to make a mount or 2.. maybe even bashing of the firewall to fit it and use of certain intake manifolds (check ozhonda.com forums).. So basically doesnt sound like it is easy to fit a different D15 in there without custom fabrication.

but in terms of the ga2 / d13 in Australia.. it is a japanese import.. so they are rare.. and i presume parts and info will be a real bitch (much like a turbo 2 e-aa? city).. So good luck

I have seen some jap websites and videos (youtube) of ga2's.. the japs seem to keep their d13 engines and NA work them a bit. I recall somewhere that certain pistons fit.. and their were mugen mods for them..

but info is scarce and parts hard to find..


Might not be that many people on here either.. seems more the e-aa? city owners forum [on a side note i think this forum needs a bit of organisation work too]

I now own the City you are talking about it was never fitted with a D15 it was a D16Y8 and the gearbox has now been changed to a D series CRX cable gearbox,I tuned the car for a guy then ended up buying it from another person.I have not touched it since I got it other than tuning its a great fun car to drive very good on fuel 400k's per 28lts and the engine makes 98kw atw so more than enough power to keep me happy for now.
Regards Uncle Dave

[Dxs]

how did the u fit the d series crx box in there?

i presume a gen2 crx.. d16a8 88-91?

[Brad_kc]

I now own the City you are talking about it was never fitted with a D15 it was a D16Y8 and the gearbox has now been changed to a D series CRX cable gearbox,I tuned the car for a guy then ended up buying it from another person.I have not touched it since I got it other than tuning its a great fun car to drive very good on fuel 400k's per 28lts and the engine makes 98kw atw so more than enough power to keep me happy for now.
Regards Uncle Dave

man o man do i ever have questions for you!

my minter ga2 will be left alone & all mods will be done on the work shitter first

so far ive brought a non-vtec D16A7 with an auto box to do a D16 swop on my work auto , mainly because it will be eaiser to do an auto to auto swop - + (a big plus) it was cheap & a good runner motor so i was in

but its the shorter stroke D15B is what im aiming to do a proper performance build of later in the minter

biggest problem i see with GA2's isnt the motor (even the D13 seems like it would be a hard revver with tuning) - its the entire back suspension system . not designed for hard conering at all . honda only meant for the 2nd gen city to be a shopping cart & so has the horrible cross member linked torsion bar set-up that is good for interior space

currently im thinking that the back suspension system from the 98-91 CRX could be made to fit & am in the process of sourcing a back-cut from a wreckers . trouble is in locating one that isnt bent

by the looks the entire wheel wells will end up being cut out , scratch made trailing arm mounts will have to be fabricated & (at a guess only) the crx's system will have to be narrowed . but it should work!




you could ask why bother , just work up a CRX . well i dont like them , think they are stink tbh. but citys on the other hand strike me as up-sized gokarts . especially the GA2 with its low seating

maybe not as hot a gokart as one of these things :



but should still be fantastic around town . heres the mags ive stuck on . they are only teh same offset but are an inch wider (gone to 14x6) so the track has growen inwards , which isnt ideal at all but they are the exact style im after & very light . has 185x70s on them when i picked them up , will be going to 195x60s soon enough



for sure 15s would be a better look , but 195s are all im after & i want as light a wheel combo as i can get , so mags with better offset to replace these will also be 14s

the gearing raised slightly with the wheel chage (10mm taller wheel) , & it needed too as it was doing 3050 - 3150 at 100 kmh . the manuel D13 box has a higher FD or 5th than the auto box for the D13s cause the work auto chuggs along at 2900 at 100

[James]

I don't have time to read your whole post at the moment but you can make that beam rear suspension handle pretty damn well, check out redpepperracing and other 3rd gen civic places, they have the same deal. It would be really easy to get it slightly wrong welding brand new suspension into a car.

There are a few threads on Honda Tech where people have made mid engined hondas and making the rear suspension is serious business.

[turbo trevor]

Having looked at this video, the lift off oversteer looks slightly dangerous...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1__IW5cHt0

However the suspension set up sounds exactly the same as a Peugeot 205 GTi, which is reknowned for its handling so maybe you can source some inspiration from a Pug.

[James]

Man thats a cool video. I would tihnk there is something very wrong with that suspension setup, but I bet its fun to drive!

[Brad_kc]

yeah ive seen that video since getting my GA2 . the lift-off oversteer is down to it being a short car with bad weight distribution , the engine is right over the front axel & is angled fowards! . peugeot got their 206 handeling fantastic at high speeds in the WRC , but it had 50/50 weight dist & 4wd (what amazed me is how the 306 seemed to have perfect dimensions but was worse all over compared to the short 206)

now even tho the GA2 never meant to be a performance hatch it still doesnt handel too bad stock . the turn-in IS quite good - but it goes pear shaped on anything except smooth surfaces . its a parallel beam with trailing arms & any bumps kick at both wheels in opposite direction .

when you really start pushing them they dont have a lot of rigidity in the back end so they squirm around as the G force increases , & if you hit bumps or ripples . . . .

simply installing high quality suspension units will do wonders , as should sway bars (dont think you could find any kits tbh , no one sems to makes aftermarket parts for GA2s) , but honestly whats there stock has little strength . the Only thing holding the wheel true in its up & down movement is the trailing arms & they are weak & weakly attached to the chassie

if your wanting a GA2 with sorted handeling the entire rear suspension set-up needs junking

what the 88-91 CRX has seems to be an ideal upgrade . the work that going to be involved tho is massive , every single attachment point will need to be custom made & fitted - i can get the engine swops done without a shed here , but the suspension work is going to have to wait untill summer when ive finished the work i got going on . councils & building permits in NZ are a joke . you got to grease every stage with money & they seem to exist just to delay you .