Honda GA1 fitted with a City Turbo I motor for track days

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davidj
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Honda GA1 fitted with a City Turbo I motor for track days

Postby davidj » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:25 pm

Hi,

It was suggested that I start a new thread and put some photos of a project I've been working on for a while with my Dad. So here it is.

Basically we had a Honda GA1 sitting around that had some overheating issues and a blown head gasket.

So instead of throwing it out thought we could have some fun and make a track car for fun days or club sprints.
We found a Honda City Turbo motor and gearbox that had been fitted to and old yellow Civic on ebay. Bought it and drove that weekend to Sydney to pick it up. The Civic was full of rust of not worth doing anything with. Someone had tried to connect the motor up to an after market ECU etc..
However a complete harness and ECU for the City Turbo was provided in the sale.

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Below is the City Turbo motor before removal

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Below is beginning of the engine removal

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Below is the engine removed. However, there is still the gearbox and other bits still to be removed... Yep, got in trouble for dropping oil on mums driveway! (No, I don't still live at home. But all car work is done at the parents since I live in an apartment)

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'Skip to the end'... (well it was no easy feat..)

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Ok, so above the Turbo motor is in. As you may be able to see all the emission stuff is gone, including the black box that had solenoids and maps sensors etc

The pipe work goes to a small intercooler located beside the radiator. I know the pipework isn't very pretty but it is a POC (Proof of concept).

Couple of key points:
-Turbo I wiring harness was merged with GA1 one so all the lights/wipers etc work
-ECU and map sensors located inside car
-Cold start idle control valve bypassed.
-No idle up solenoid or control (engine idle set at around 1200rpm)
-Bigger Garret water/oil turbo (can't remember exact size etc)
-Car is fully stripped inside. no carpet/heater/air-con etc (only air blower for front window)
-Cobra race seat and six point harness (will put up some interior photos soon)
-Did have that hunting problem that is very common, but has been sorted.
-Did start to look at putting an electronic boost cut defender in, but the ECU threw an error code which I guess was due to input impedance miss match.. one day I will come back reverse engineer the circuit.. though 13-14psi is fine for the crap tyres at the moment...

Below is a shot of the rebuilt engine with larger turbo and increased diameter exhaust.
For the rebuild we re-seated the valves, honed the cylinders and added new set of rings.

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Last weekend was our first real test day at Winton Raceway (photo above), Victoria. The rebuilt engine pulled really hard. Only running about 13psi
However, the stock suspension and street tyres meant handling was terrible!!!! The back kept wanting to exit the corners first. So much body roll, but the handling wasn't unpredictable, just crap.

I had a new GTR Skyline behind me for a few corners before he got sick of me a flew past at the first opportunity.. was cool though.

So the next thing to look at is suspension. I expect there aren't any bolt on options for this. Need to spend some time laying on my back underneath contemplating what can be done.

If anyone has some advice/experience with suspension for GA1 it would be appreciated?

Personally, I wish I had a City Turbo I or II Body to drop then engine into, the shape looks great and I suspect the suspension is probably much better!

I have more pictures which I will post soon, such as the interior, engine components and the track day...

At some stage I would like to put up a more detailed list things done to the car like custom engine mounts etc... not sure if forums is best place or on my own web page?

There are also about 100 photos or so...

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3GCVC
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Postby 3GCVC » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:10 am

There is suspension avaliable from japan it seems...

http://search1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/search?p=GA2&auccat=2084016860&f=0x2&alocale=0jp&apg=1&s1=cbids&o1=a&mode=2

Lowering springs, shocks, bushings, nothing too flash but it would help you to get the city running a bit quicker.

Also how did you get the motor in there go straight in on the mounts or were they modified a lot.

davidj
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Postby davidj » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:00 am

3GCVC wrote:There is suspension avaliable from japan it seems...

http://search1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/search?p=GA2&auccat=2084016860&f=0x2&alocale=0jp&apg=1&s1=cbids&o1=a&mode=2

Lowering springs, shocks, bushings, nothing too flash but it would help you to get the city running a bit quicker.

Also how did you get the motor in there go straight in on the mounts or were they modified a lot.


Great, thanks for the link. I will have to investigate.

Yeah, we basically had a mix of engine mounts from the GA1, Civic and City Turbo. There was a bit of welding/strengthining with the mount at lower/front of the engine. We added a mounting point to the fire wall for the top of the motor. Can't exactly remember the rear lower mount... there would have been some modification. Unfortunately it's no stored at my home so I can go out and check.
I need to dig up some of the my older pictures as the project has been on/off for the past few years because or other car projects / commitments etc

If you need some pictures I will probably be looking at the car this weekend and can take some then.

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Postby 3GCVC » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:20 pm

Yeah in the link the first set (fronts i think) look adjustable and almost brand new.

Further down for 4000yen there is a set which look similar to the first set (no honda part numbers) those are possibly KYB adjustable as well,

The rear shocks look to be the same as EF / DA Integra only thing will be the length even stock ones from a EF / DA would be an upgrade because they are designed to carry a heavier car., ( i have a pair of Mugen rears for DA Teg) possibly the lowering springs would get it low but not sure how much would take some experimenting,

Maybe you should get some AA city fronts and see what they are like for length if they are good, and fit into the knuckle get James (aka Bigelboe) to modify them to suit what you need in terms of spring hat height and strut length.

I don't think it would be too hard just keep in mind it will take a bit of playing around to get the spring rates right, most FWDs understeer from factory meaning you want to stiffen the rear a bit but the weight reduction would have left the rear quite light so you may need to watch it for oversteer and fit different springs.

that is where i would start anyway.

davidj
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Postby davidj » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:47 pm

3GCVC wrote:Yeah in the link the first set (fronts i think) look adjustable and almost brand new.

Further down for 4000yen there is a set which look similar to the first set (no honda part numbers) those are possibly KYB adjustable as well,

The rear shocks look to be the same as EF / DA Integra only thing will be the length even stock ones from a EF / DA would be an upgrade because they are designed to carry a heavier car., ( i have a pair of Mugen rears for DA Teg) possibly the lowering springs would get it low but not sure how much would take some experimenting,

Maybe you should get some AA city fronts and see what they are like for length if they are good, and fit into the knuckle get James (aka Bigelboe) to modify them to suit what you need in terms of spring hat height and strut length.

I don't think it would be too hard just keep in mind it will take a bit of playing around to get the spring rates right, most FWDs understeer from factory meaning you want to stiffen the rear a bit but the weight reduction would have left the rear quite light so you may need to watch it for oversteer and fit different springs.

that is where i would start anyway.


Great, thanks for the advice. Need to find some spare time to get back onto the car ! (or under it!)

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Postby davidj » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:11 pm

Hi All,

Thought I would add a couple picks from our first track/fun day.


Below, back of car with battery in rear

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There is a fair bit of lean there!!!! Crap suspension.

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Yep, back of car was trying to beat me out of the corner... It won.

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Something like this would be a nice upgrade!

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James
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Postby James » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:24 pm

Inverted struts! Serious business.


Awesome build man. It looks like you have a T25 on there, would be interesting to see specs of it if you are ever around that side of the motor :P

Needs a bit more spring rate in the front :lol: Most factory Hondas need work on the rear to stop them understeering so much but it sounds like yours is the opposite.

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Postby davidj » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:50 pm

bigelboe wrote:Inverted struts! Serious business.


Awesome build man. It looks like you have a T25 on there, would be interesting to see specs of it if you are ever around that side of the motor :P

Needs a bit more spring rate in the front :lol: Most factory Hondas need work on the rear to stop them understeering so much but it sounds like yours is the opposite.


T25 rings a bell...

Yeah, found the suspension above thanks to 3GCVC pointing me in the right direction. However, these are on a Japan Yahoo auctions. So I am not sure how to contact/join up with them yet

Thanks for your comments



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3GCVC
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Postby 3GCVC » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:22 pm

that suspension looks good,

as for purchasing it try importmonster they are auz based i believe

davidj
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Postby davidj » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:29 pm

3GCVC wrote:that suspension looks good,

as for purchasing it try importmonster they are auz based i believe



Fantastic, thanks for your help. Just registered with them.

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Postby Brad_kc » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:28 pm

awesome work dude . proper suspension will transform your car . the standard stuff is the very low end of the bargin bin that manufacturers shop from . yeah its coil overs , but they are junk

havent tried them yet , but sway bars seem like they are needed on GA citys . some cars end up handeling worse with them , they are not like an essential needed part for every car . & ive yet to get a handle on the rear live axel that GA's have . the only thing keeping the wheel tracking true to the fronts is the trailing arm , & the trailing arm mount on the chassie is pathetically weak . getting some flat bar stitch welded in around looks like one thing that would help , as well as getting some replacement arms made that were stronger . the whole rear system on the GA has that underfed look :-(

but yeah , the biggest improvement youll see is in junking the standard shocks

btw , was their much of a weight diference between the D engine it had & the turbo E ?

davidj
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Postby davidj » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:16 pm

Brad_kc wrote:awesome work dude . proper suspension will transform your car . the standard stuff is the very low end of the bargin bin that manufacturers shop from . yeah its coil overs , but they are junk

havent tried them yet , but sway bars seem like they are needed on GA citys . some cars end up handeling worse with them , they are not like an essential needed part for every car . & ive yet to get a handle on the rear live axel that GA's have . the only thing keeping the wheel tracking true to the fronts is the trailing arm , & the trailing arm mount on the chassie is pathetically weak . getting some flat bar stitch welded in around looks like one thing that would help , as well as getting some replacement arms made that were stronger . the whole rear system on the GA has that underfed look :-(

but yeah , the biggest improvement youll see is in junking the standard shocks

btw , was their much of a weight diference between the D engine it had & the turbo E ?


Yeah, structural the car doesn't seen very rigid. I was laying under it yesterday looking at strengthining a few spots.

Not sure of the weight difference between the two. The original motor had a lot more emission and other crap handing off it. There is now more room in the engine bay.. perhaps the city it lighter..


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