What do you think on this conversion?

[Spartica]

I wa talkinga bout my T2 in my normal fashion, pure pride and taking all the bad comments from my class mates and then one of them who actually likes my car said I should take out the T2 engine and drop in a Rotary 12b lol. What do you think about dem apples? lol
Also some of my other friends said if they had one they'd take out the turbo and put in a super charger instead....

[Brendan]

I'd say they dont have a clue what they are talking about

Brendan

[AnimaLector]

12B?? interesting one!!! I still have my RX7, and I am almost certain they only come out in 12A, 13B and 20B.  Since the City is Front wheel drive and the Rotaries only have RWD gearboxes designed for them it would be a bit tough.. I have seen/heard of a few 12A VW beetles, Interesting concept there..

If you're really after a rotary.. I'll swap you the City Turbo for my Rx7...  

Andy

[Spartica]

lol My thoguhts exactly Brendan!
uumm that's a pretty tempting offer AL but I will have to turn you down aye, cause I just love my T2 too much but maybe in a couple of year if your offer still stands then maybe.

[AnimaLector]

Hopefully It'll be gone within the next few weeks.. THere's a guy here selling a City Turbo 2 but he's not selling for another 2 weeks or so, so I have a bit of time to get rid of the RX7..

They're a nice little car.. can't wait to own one.

[MUnity]

Take a rotary, bolt it to a VW transaxle and put the whole thing in the rear Instant 12's. Once the two engines I've got are destroyed, I plan on doing a simular thing (except with a Toyota Celica 7th gen drive train), that's 150kW, 8000 odd rpm redline, and 6 six speeds in a mid/ rear engined City

[QikLude]

yeah go the hardcore city mods!!

Jw

[Turbo3]

Hey Spartica,

Sounds like a BIG project!!  ;D
Can a 12A sit East/West? Could be the go!
MUnity,
If you're going to use a Celica trans, you could go GTFour. Then you'd need a big turbo on that rotary.
4WD, Mid-engined Turbo Rotary City!!  ;)
That would sure get you in a few magazines eh! ;D

Pete

[QikLude]

I still wana see a s2000 motor in one of these puppies

some good screaming 6 speed honda goodness in a shell that ways nothing hehehe

could be able to be done, just be race only probably!

[MUnity]

It's nice to dream, but, any 4WD train won't work with a mid engined application, because the gearbox sends power south to the second diff, if you reversed the drive train, then you'd have to get the engine to spin backwards or you'd only have one forward gear and five reverse!

The only gearbox that would work is a Getrag (?) unit that sells for US$20,000  :o

The VW transaxle won't work either for the same reason, that is, there isn't enough space behind the rear axle for an engine.

Looking at the stock City drive train, it's clear that the engine and box would fit in the back with room to spare, so you could have a twin engined, 4WD with 300+ hp.

The conversion is actually fairly simple in that all it needs is a hole cut in the rear floor and a rear sub frame fabricated to hold the second engine. The steering is locked by bolting ball ends to the sub frame, which can also provide for passive rear wheel steer, like a RX-7 or 928. You'd only be left with enough space for maybe a 20 litre fuel tank

I'm not a huge fan of using this method, simply because City parts are getting hard to come by and it would really suck if you put all that work into a car and then couldn't get basic parts down the road.

The S2000 drive train would only work if the engine sat alongside the driver, making it a race only car.

If you can find one, a NSX drive train looks ideal, since it' s very compact, remember the mid engined Honda City/ NSX prototype

For me, 90% of what makes the City so much fun is that it's so light, and I want to maintain that. I also don't much care for AWD's as it means you have to drive really fast before they even begin to under or oversteer, so you have to go double the speed limit to have any fun.

So for me, a Celica FF drive train is the best solution, it's readily available, will be cheap in a couple years when I do this, should fit (I haven't actually measured up Celica drive train), will put out more than enough power, there's plenty of after market support (even turbo kits), and should just plain be more fun (hard to believe I know). I'm confident I can get it all legal to, provided everything is engineer approved, and the car is registered as an Individually Constructed Vehicle.

Final note, sure superchargers are easier to retro fit, and arguably more reliable, but remember, a supercharger uses half the power it produces to drive itself! So all else being equal, a turbo car will always be more powerful.

[QikLude]

I would always question how well you could get a city to handle with either a bigger motor up front or in the back.

I too like going fast, but if it doesnt handle your just gona get lapped big time at the track  :(

I think a well designed ER cranking out a lot more power than stock while retaining the light weight would be the simplist / cheapest / most reliable option myself.
sacked out with some wide tires would be a BIG help  8)

but hey, everyone to themselves  :-/

[Turbo3]

Yo MUnity

It's nice to dream, but, any 4WD train won't work with a mid engined application, because the gearbox sends power south to the second diff, if you reversed the drive train, then you'd have to get the engine to spin backwards or you'd only have one forward gear and five reverse!

At one of our Rally Sprint events recently, some enterprising dudes put together a Mitsubishi Cordia with a 6000cc Mid mounted Chevy pointing rearwards. A firewall was made behind the front seats, no rear seats obviously, with a big buldge for the bell housing. It was 4WD, with some custom made drivetrain bits. This was a very professional package, with plenty of sponsorship, not just a throw together for the day. It didn't win the event, but was unbeatable for noise and excitement!!  ;D
If you really want to make it work I'm sure it will!

Pete

[MUnity]

I would always question how well you could get a city to handle with either a bigger motor up front or in the back.

True, but that's part of the appeal of this kind of work. My plan is to use the entire front suspension off the donor car, that would then become rear suspension, and with passive rear wheel steer, I can only imagine it would handle at least as well as a stock City, just being mid engined would help handling quite a bit. The added width on the Celica drive train would mean big Jap one make series style flares, along with a custom fabricated double wishbone front end, and all the adjustment that
would provide would mean it has to handle

One could also argue that even a poorly sorted rear drive handles better than a good front drive.

Turbo3, I was thinking about using some sort of modified 4x4 transfer case to send the power 180 degrees back to the front, that still doesn't allow for clearance of the rear axles etc, but yes, it could work. The other problem is that there's no rear overhang to speak of, making things that much more difficult. I even thought of building/ buying a full tube frame chassis, that would stretch the wheelbase (just behind the doors) 200mm or so to allow for extra space like Peugeot did in their Dakar Rally 205's. In the end, if I were to do all that, I'd choose a larger car, like a mid 80's Mercedes 190E. I saw pics of a six wheel (drive?) Saab at a NZ hill climb :drool:

I looked at a Mitsubishi Magna today, looks like it would almost fit. I'd need to cut away some of the rear body work and add a power buldge to the rear door , but in Ralliart spec, that would be 180kW, which could easily become 230 with a supercharger or 270odd with a turbo, and the car would be 1.7 metres wide

That would indeed be the fastest way to the city

[doggystyle]

why if your going to spend heaps buy a porche? flat 6 twin turbo and mount it behind the front seats using the full 4wd system

[MUnity]

There are those who like to build, and those that are happy to buy. Now I, like most people, buy things all the time, but the things that I get most satisfaction from are those that I've built or at least modified myself. That goes for not just cars, but stuff like furniture, scratch built models etc.

Problem with Porsche is even wrecks cost a fortune, and engine maintenance costs are rediculous. A 928 timing belt change will set you back almost $3000! Not sure how much of that is labour and how much is parts, but still, a Japanese belt cost more like $70, and $300 dealer fitted, at most.

A Porsche engine won't work because it's rear mounted and the City has no rear overhang.