Need help on a T1 conv.Civic

[Sleepy]

Hey guys,
              Ive got a '76 Civic with a T1 engine conversion. Its being managed by a Microtech DIGI 2 ECU. Top mounted intercooler ..etc..

Ive been having alot of problems with it  especially if ive left it sit alone for even 2 days. I have trouble starting it, and only get it started again after I clean the spark plugs everytime. THe sparkies have alot of oily/"fuellish" residue on it. And when it does start it idles very rough after blowing some smoke for a minute or so.

The Mechs around my area dont have a clue about ER engines and never ever heard of CVVC before.     I took it to a local "Performance" specialist and he told me it was just my injectors and fuel filter.  GOt it back home, parked it into the garage and 2 days later ......same prob.
Theres no power in it at all.
Can anyone help me? Or direct me to a knowledgible guy around the S/w Sydney area?

Heres a few questions too ...........

Will any normal City head fit the ER1 engine?

IF im standing at the front of the car looking into the engine bay. Is that black "filter" looking thing on my right with a fuel line running from the top and from the bottom to the fuel rail a fuel damper or fuel pressure regulator? The local mechanic says its a filter ...but im not quite sure. And where can I get a replacement part for it?

Where on the net can I get the schematics/diagram of the ER1 engine?

Thanx alot if u can help ....I still have alot to learn about my engine.

Cheers

Will post some pics soon

[Charles]

Some bad news. You will never get your motor to run properly with aftermarket ECU unless you can replicate the cvcc signal. The little injector on the front of the throttle body is the cvcc injector (many mech's think it is a cold start or 5th injector). Even the carb versions of the cvcc need fuel mix to be sent to the cvcc prechambers. The car will be gutless compared to a standard city turbo and before too long the cvcc prechambers will clog up completely and you wilml get nothing.

A city head from a standard city will fit and the turbo manifold will bolt on. Speak to Peter about this though his hybrid has been in the making for about 6 yrs. You need to do some extensive combustion chamber reshaping and add a custom intake manifold.

The big black thing about the size of a small peanut butter jar is the fuel filter if it is in the original location. The small silver canister that the fuel line goes into (about the size of a spool of thread) is the fuel pressure regulator.

Is the cvcc injector connected? If you can replicat the cvcc output you can tune completely. Most ECU's have the ability to drive extras and yours may be able to do the cvcc injector. You need to record the cvcc signal first and I would say to do this you should put a scope on a standard city turbo to find out that signal. Once you know if it is linear and constant or puilses like a normal injector you can account for flow. My guess is that the cvcc injector works like a carb jet with variable flow. I don't know how this variable flow is acheived (pulsing or voltage change) but it feeds four ports and is unlikely to pulse.

Time to find out- Ask one of the guys here to get out a digital multi meter set it to 20V and measure the output across the cvcc injector terminal while the car is running. Straight away they should see pulsing or not. If not pulsing, increase engine revs and see if voltage to cvcc increases. If it does you can set up a simple variable signal that can be rpm, throttle or Map based or a combination of them). If you can only link to one use MAP signal.

It is not that simple but shouldn't be that hard either. If you need a head ring Rodney at Hontoys.

Cheers,

Charles

[Turbo3]

Yo Sleepy,
Yeah, I've had a std head machined for the T2 or T3 as I'm calling it (One better than a T2! ;D) You need to build up and machine the sides at the top of the head to mate with the magnesium "Combax" rocker cover. Otherwise you're stuck with the "E" or "Pro" cover which is very uninspiring!! :-/
I'm going for a Microtech MTX-8, but wont have the CVCC injector to worry about as all the intake has been rebuilt from scratch. This was to avoid the whole issue of having to map and replicate that extra injector.
And hey it's only taken 3 yrs so far!! Mainly because of lack of $$ to finish it in one go!
Cheers, Pete

[doggystyle]

hey charles i have a question, with the cvcc injection with the more boost you run does it start to  inject more or does it just keep running the same i would tihnk it would cos of denser air, i'm thinking of running a quad throttle set up of a 2.0 celica, if i make the throttle size for the cvcc bigger and inject more fuel will it make any difference to performance i'm assuming no as i'm not changing the prechamber size...

[Sleepy]

Thanx for the replies guy.  ;D

Charles, wow man ......youve been able to give me more info on the car than 5 mechs Ive seen put all together!!
about the CVCC injector .....I have put a stethescope on it and I can hear it pulsing ....well, tapping like the other four.
Im the 2nd owner of the car from whom I bought it off a good friend of mine about 5years ago when he decided on upgrading his choice of ride and its been sitting in the garage for a few years.
The guys that did the actual transplant of the engine is a "shop" called Croydon Autosports. I have driven the car previously and it seemed to go alright. I parked it int he garage and left it for awhile ...then when i went to go register the car , it started (well, it didnt start) to play up.
There is an ignition adapter connected to the ECU which ill try to post the pic of. Im not sure what it does.

Above is the MicroTECH DIGI2 and the ignition adapter next to it (lil black box)


Top-mounted intercooler


Engine bay. (Charles: see the black thing in the middle of pic? Part number H2A1  Is that the fuel filter? What type & part number can I interchange it with? Cuz i cant find a replacement anywhere near me.)


Few pics of the car

So would any of you guys know the general area of the problem with symptoms like hard cold starting, oily spark plugs, rough idle, blow alot of smoke on start up, loss of power, flat spots in accelaterating? Ive got a funny feeling its got something to do with my valves or overfuelling.

Anyway, sorry for all the questions ...its so good to finally talk to some ppl that knows about the ER engine types.

Thanx alot again

[Sleepy]

[quote author=Charles link=board=GEN;num=1058801972;start=0#1 date=07/22/03 at 09:03:44]
Time to find out- Ask one of the guys here to get out a digital multi meter set it to 20V and measure the output across the cvcc injector terminal while the car is running. Straight away they should see pulsing or not. If not pulsing, increase engine revs and see if voltage to cvcc increases. If it does you can set up a simple variable signal that can be rpm, throttle or Map based or a combination of them). If you can only link to one use MAP signal.


Can someone pls try and do what charles asks up top so I can get output to compare with my car. It would be much appreciated.
Thanx

[Sleepy]

Hey Turbo3 ......

How much did that standard head set up cost you?

Anyone have any ideas as the best way to go for me ..budget wise.   Ive still got to upgrade my brakes plus get an engineers cert. lol

[Turbo3]

Hey Sleepy,
Head was done as part of other engine work. There was a lot of machining around the valves and re-shaping on the top of the combustion chamber. Inlet and exhaust ports were enlarged polished and matched to the manifold. This along with the manifold and fuel rail fabrication was added to the bill for rebuilding the engine, gearbox and kevlar clutch etc and was a shade over $10,000.  :o Kids, don't try this at home!!
If I don't get to own the quickest City in NZ, I'll surely have the most expensive.  ;)
This is NOT a budget option and is why I keep running out of dosh to complete it!!  :-/
Pete

[Sleepy]

Hey Turbo3,
                So i wont be able just to attach the standard city head even if i have to keep the bodgy rocker cover for awhile without getting some work done on it?

I may as well just buy a standalone fuel computer to run the cvcc injector by itself like a guy I bought a Dizzy off had.

Thanx alot for your help Turbo3 & Charles .....MUCH appreciated. ;D

Cheers

[Michael]

Has the car ever run as it should? or is it an unfinished project?

[Sleepy]

Michael,
           The previous owner (good friend) had it up and running and it went very good. He was dragging Suzuki gti's. It had rego and everything. It ran out of rego and he sold it to me. I drove it and it seemed ok. parked it in the garage, left it for a couple of years and when I went to get it up and running again, things started playing up.
Ive just read the symptoms in the Post called "Too Rich". Its pretty much the same as with mine.

I dont know. im taking it to the guys that did the initial transplant. I will be happy to pay $170 for the towing itself if they will be able to fix it.

[Charles]

The plug clogging problem suggests that, at start up at least, you have too much fuel to cvcc prechambers.

Don't get me wrong Croydon do some good stuff but can get it a bit wrong especially when they use their young guys on your car.

There are a whole bunch of guys in Sydney with cuty turbos and city turbo conversions using stock ECUs. You should try and find one.

If Croydon got it right and replicated the cvcc signal (they had access to other city turbos) then the fuel pressure regulator may be stuck closed (tends to happen with the honda citys) mine stuck open on NOS once with no fuel pressure it was a nasty result.

The black thing is definately the fuel filter. You can replace with stock honda fuel pressure reg for Honda 86-88 integra (get from supercheap etc). The entry is a tiny bit different but will bolt in. Otherwise do what I do and replace with a high flow Ryco EFI fuel filter (to suit V6 and V8 commodore v6 300ZX etc. These are cheap with good flow. You will need to extend your fuel lines though.

Charles

[Sleepy]

Charles,
          Yove been a great help mate. I appreciate it.
I know a few guys with Honda City Turbos in my area but after getting ripped off $150 for a Dizzy from one of them i tend to steer clear. lol  
As with Croydon ......I may as well give them a try cuz they were the ones that did the install in the first place. If they cant fix the prob, then Im farked!! lol

I took the car for a lil drive today and it sucked big time. No power under load and you can he the whine on the turbo very loud. It seems like the only thing running the car is the turbo. Alot of smoke on start, load etc.
I do have a display hooked up on the ECu but I cant understand anything its reading out or if its the correct setting.

I dont know ....just gotta pray to the Honda gods that Croydon get it done alright!!

Thanx again for the help

Cheers

[Michael]

If it was once running ok it is unlikely that the microtec has lost its settings. If it is in the computer and you have the handset for it that should show up were the fault is in the system, eg if the temp sensor is reading say 5deg when hot obviously thats your problem.

If nothing obvous stands out start by checking the mecanical componants of the fuel system. Pull the spark plugs out and check if they are all as oily as each other. If not it could be that a ccvc valve is sticking?? or a injector is staying open.

If they are equally as oily then it could be as Charles suggested, the fuel pressure regulor.  

Also it should be go much better than a GTI when running right.  

[Sleepy]

Thanx Michael.

I have to sand the Spark plugs nearly every 3 days with all the oilly residue being left on it.
Its a bitch to start and very very smoky at first. Very strong fuel smell too.

I was supposed to send it to the workshop this week but havent had time off work. Hopefully can have the brakes done by mid week next and send it to Croydon by Thursday. Atleast they have worked on the MicroTech systems and have a dyno not like most of the mechanics around my area.

Have you guys seen those Glass fuel filters they sell in Repco, Auto1?  Are they any good? Or just for show not go?

Anyways thanx Master Jedii's.

May the Boost be wit u!!