KingCity

Post pictures and details of your Honda City
KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:04 pm

I've been playing around with brake upgrades for the red City to find that the standard GA2 City (1988-1993) front disks & calipers bolt straight up to the standard City-E hubs & knuckles, now with that said the standard City-E disk are 210mm diameter solids but the GA2 City disks are 230mm diameter solids which are the same size as T2 disks but T2 ones are vented which are that one step better yet but they don't just bolt on without the T2 knuckles & calipers. GA2 pads are much bigger than City-E ones so braking performance is going to be noticeable & is a very easy upgrade without having to search for hard to come by T2 brake & hub/knuckle components. One thing to take into account is that the standard 12inch steelies wont quite fit around the GA2 capilers so some 13's or bigger are going to be needed for this upgrade. For your information T1's have a vented 210mm disk.

If anyone is keen to do a GA2 brake upgrade to there first gen City then there are a few things you need to know. First thing to note is that it will only bolt straight up to a City-E which is a NZ new N/A City which uses the larger 140mm caliper bolt spacing's, JDM City's use smaller 110mm caliper bolt spacing's so City-R's & (from memory) Turbo 1 City's are out of luck here but there is a solution & that is to change to City-E hubs & knuckles which will bolt straight up to City-R & T1 City's however its likely you will have to change the outer CV to a City-E one as there are two types of outer CV splines for City's, NZ new use a full length spline & JDM use 3/4 length spline, if you are unsure what I mean well its to do with the hubs, im not sure if you can just change the hubs to get around this (I don't see why not) but its probably just as easier to get the outers with the City-E hubs & knuckles so then its a straight forward swap.

If you are unsure what knuckles you have then just measure between the caliper bolts, its wise to check this whether or not its a City-E.......period! Im unsure what the Pro-T City in Australia has in it regarding knuckles & hubs but if they are Australian new then its likely to have the same setup as New Zealand new City's, I hope I have my facts right regarding the Pro-T City as I am assuming they are the equivalent to the City-E in NZ, please correct me if im wrong.

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:43 pm

So I had Saturday off work for a change & used that time wisely to hunt around the wreckers for some brake upgrades as it seems to be a common topic here on this site so I thought I would post something about it. I had never really worried about brake upgrades until I thought more about a Vtec conversion & realised bigger brakes are must if I ever do attempt the swap & try to get it road legal, with that said here are some comparisons.

Here are the two types of City knuckles I had mentioned before, the one on the left is the 110mm caliper spacing & on the right is the 140mm spacing, from my experience all T2's have 140's
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Here is a comparison between a N/A City 210mm disk(left) & a 230mm disk(right) from my GA2 City, this is the straight bolt on to the 140mm N/A knuckles that I was referring to in my above post, as you can clearly see the GA2 disks are reasonably larger but also use a much larger pad so should give a substantial increase in braking performance over the 210's
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Same two disks showing the thickness difference.
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Here is a comparison between between 260's, 240's, 230's & 210's. From left to right we have DA6 Integra 260mm vented disk, caliper & pad above, then some 240mm DC1 Integra vented disk, caliper & pad above, 230mm T2 disk with GA2 caliper & pad above(I don't have any T2 calipers for a comparison but gauging from the GA one its likely to be around that size) & last we have a 210mm disk, caliper & pad from a N/A City.
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This is just showing the thickness difference between the DC1's 240mm(left) & the 230mm T2's(right)
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Same as above but a close up view.
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So with the photos there I will explain some more. I was looking around the wreckers for possible brake upgrades for my N/A knuckles but found basically nothing, they seem to be an odd offset to most other Honda's but found it much easier to find a upgrade for T2's instead which is a good thing considering I wasn't looking for T2 upgrades. First thing to note is that N/A City's use a 40mm offset disk & im also sure T1's do to but T2's & im sure Cabriolet's use a 45mm offset disk which seems to be much more common in the Honda range, so common in fact that 90% of the cars I looked at had 45mm offset disks, Mazda, Ford, Nissan, Toyota & almost all Hondas had 45's which ranged from mid to late 80's Accords, preludes, Integra's through to the 90's which makes it very easy to find a set.

The DA6 Integra disks & calipers are no good for either N/A or turbo City's even thought the disk fits the hub its the calipers that doesn't as the mounts on the City knuckles do not protrude far enough out to allow the DA6 caliper to bolt on with that disk even though the DA6 caliper is a 140mm, it also has a thicker 14mm mounting flange than the rest which are 10mm so if they did bolt on then the disk would need to be a 40-41mm offset so it contradicts its self a bit here.

So the other option which I found plenty of was the 240mm vented disks & calipers, I got these ones from a DC1 Integra (1994 on) which has the bug eye(twin) headlight which here in NZ normally means NZ New but in Australia I think only the Australian New Type-R's have those ugly fronts. This DC1 I found at the wreckers had a D16 in it so its the lowest spec one I think, DOHC Vtec DC2's use 260's or bigger & maybe even some SOHC Vtecs but im not sure of this.

The 240mm DC1 disks & calipers bolt straight onto the T2 hubs/knuckles & even though some of you may think that its only 10mm bigger than T2's so whats the point well if you look at the photos above you will see even though they are only 10mm bugger in diameter its the larger thickness of them & the considerably larger pad that is going to make a difference especially if doing a lot of hard braking which is going to create a lot of heat which the thinner T2 disks wont handle so much before getting brake fade. Anyway its up to the individual what they think but for a simple straight bolt on upgrade then I feel its worth it.

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Re: KingCity

Postby bitterberry » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:24 pm

Good load of info mate! You should probably cross post this to the infobase section, could be very handy stuff. What are you trying to do here in the long run? Which brakes on which car?

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Re: KingCity

Postby ANTHRAXXX » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:16 pm

Cool info well done! - With swapping will you end up with a 4x100 PCD or will it go up to 4x114? Seems 95% of cool oldschool rims are 4x114.

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:22 pm

Nah im giving Turdbo the 240's as I don't run T2 knuckles so cant use them, I just got them for him. I have spare T2 knuckles that I test fitted the 240's on. If you want to get 240's for N/A 140mm knuckles then use GA3 ones, they come off the TS version which uses larger 240's, that's what I have just put on the GA2 City, this is why I have taken the standard GA2 City disks & calipers off & will go on my Turbo City for now. As for what im trying to do well its winter time & I was bored so thought i'd go suss out some brake options to help guide other City enthusiasts but I do plan on doing a bigger brake setup as its going to be needed later on with the B-series conversion so just looking around for options at the moment. I really am aiming to get 260's on there & there are a couple options but cant find calipers to suit.

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:30 pm

ANTHRAXXX wrote:Cool info well done! - With swapping will you end up with a 4x100 PCD or will it go up to 4x114? Seems 95% of cool oldschool rims are 4x114.


Nah man still 4x100, I don't want to have to change hubs to a 4x114 configuration but it could be done if you found the right one that will fit the City knuckle or a custom made one but its probably easier to just get the wheels drilled to suit PCD.

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Re: KingCity

Postby bitterberry » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:58 pm

Hey just wondering if you run bigger injectors and if so what cc and from what? I remember you had some bigger ones for sale a while back but was unsure what you're using now?

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:02 pm

Hey man, yeah I had some gen1 B16a injectors & some from a B20 Prelude which are the same. I stopped using them as they were noticeably more hungry on fuel & because the T2 injectors were up to the task but found that standard T1 & T2 injectors cant handle the high fuel pressures when running 20psi & over, I've cracked 3 in the last year when running high boost, not to sure if its just a coincidence since they are old or because of high boost but haven't had any issues with the B-series ones. Standards are between 180cc & 190cc & the B-series ones that I used are 240cc so I've read, if you only run a max of 18psi your standard injectors will be fine, read in my post if you need more detailed info as its all in there when I had it on the dyno.

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blitza
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Re: KingCity

Postby blitza » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:08 pm

Nice work! I was wondering about this the other day, does Honda do twin or four put callipers?

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:57 pm

Thanks. Umm so I've heard & read there was a special 80's Prelude or Accord that came out with twin pot calipers, I thought there was one down at the wreckers here but no I lucked out there. As for 4 pot calipers well if Honda have made them they are likely to only be on modern models but I don't know of any, maybe the NSX but im not up with the play on brake units that cars use.

bitterberry
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Re: KingCity

Postby bitterberry » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:27 pm

Holy shit man good work, fastest city in NZ/the world?! You're sure giving it hell in the redline hahaha. Good effort well done!

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:22 pm

3 Motors that needed moving to my new place..............................................

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How to sack the rear of a City.........................Put 3 motors in it!

Image

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KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:47 pm

I was also at the Honda Drag meet a couple weekends ago to finely try it with the nitrous but didn't even get close to my PB time. I was running a T1 turbo on the T2 manifolds which seems to hold its 11psi boost better with hardly any creep & a 30hp shot of nitrous but only ran a best of 14.8 at 94.1mph (151kph) which isn't great but still not to bad considering I'm well down on power using the nitrous compared to running 20psi of boost or more so it was a good test, unfortunately they were only writing out the times on paper without doing a full printout so i had no idea what my 60 foot times were to give a comparison with my other times. The car seemed fairly good off the mark with more than enough traction but i had a lot of axle tramping problems trying to warm the tyres first.

NAC Car Culture were there filming & i was lucky enough to get in front of the camera as i was the odd ball Honda there so they thought that was good enough reason so theres a good chance you may see some footage of the car running. When they were filming i had only managed a 15.1 at that time & i really thought i would have been doing low 14's easy, when am i going to give up on trying to get a 13 :lol:

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Re: KingCity

Postby ANTHRAXXX » Fri May 06, 2016 3:23 pm

Hey Kingcity, I found the owner of that Jazz/B18 engine car on Facebook - Rolands Ozoliņš

KingCity
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Re: KingCity

Postby KingCity » Sat May 07, 2016 7:20 pm

Hey bro, yeah im sure i had seen his facebook a while ago but im not into facebook so never bothered to contact him. I could have done the B18c conversion by now but i really cant be bothered anymore due to having the B18c GA City already, if it still hadn't been done by someone else then i may have done it just to say i've done it.


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